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Damned if you do, damned if you don’t

I’m wondering: are the people that complained that Dan Mirgliogagalata didn’t stop the Slice/Thompson fight near the end of the second round the same people who are complaining about him stopping Werdum/Vera? Because if they are, I’ve got news for these peeps: you’re being hypocrites.

Okay, I’ll agree with you on this point: the inconsistency is at best confusing and at worst infuriating. The general rule is that a fighter must be defending himself intelligently to avoid having the fight stopped – despite what many people think, there’s no pre-requisite for a fighter to be KO’d or put on queer street before a ref can step in. So with that, we can say two things: Dan fucked up with the Slice / Thompson fight, but he technically made the right call with Vera / Werdum.

But hey, I’m with you guys. Personally I think a fighter should be allowed to get thumped stupid before a fight is stopped … this isn’t a tea party, after all. But Vera got his dumb ass mounted, and couldn’t do anything about it other than cover up. Covering up is not considered an ‘intelligent defense’, so it was stopped. Shitty buzz, but we’ve all seen it over and over. If you don’t want it to happen, don’t get mounted. And if you do get mounted, then fucking DO SOMETHING other than cover your face with your arms.

Everyone has a right to complain, and hey … why not take it out on the ref. After all, it WAS the ref’s fault that Werdum tossed Vera around like a rag doll, and the ref’s fault Vera ended up being mounted. Shit, how about we blame the ref for Vera’s retarded insistance on fighting at heavyweight? Oh, these are all Bradon’s fault? Hmm.

  • Hattori Hanzo Gracie

    tired of dudes getting pounded on and then upset when the fight gets stopped. Vera needs to watch how Marquart defended the mount. Marquart got dropped and was still able to scoot out and defend againist being mounted.

  • ABM!2!

    Covering up may not be an intelligent defense in the middle of a round. However when a round is ending and the mounted fighter is covering up, I really don’t see how you can fault him. Remember, Vera was also trying to roll out of it and Fabricio Werdum is a BJJ black belt and had a very secure mount.

  • Amy Robinson

    I agree the refs should let them go for alittle longer than the Vera fight. They should realize fighters can sustain a decent amount of punishment and still be fighting fit and be able to comeback.

    However, the fighters also need to realize how bad a position like that reflects to the ref., and that at anytime its grounds for them to stop things so they need to get out of it extremely urgently if it is possible, instead of perhaps playing “possum” or waiting for a round to end or for a standup.

    It’s kinda like going to decisions in some respect, you don’t want to leave a fight in the judges hands cuz you never know what they’ll do. And you can’t leave it in the referees hand either.

    As far as the Kimbo fight its a little special situation, as main events can sometime be, they’re let go longer and for certain fighters at times because of the circumstances. It’s wrong and it sucks but its the way things sometimes are, unless the commissions get invovled somehow, and its something fighters need to be aware of.

  • goo

    Werdum kicking the shit out of Vera is at least partly Werdum’s fault haha.

    How come fights don’t get stopped when people aren’t intelligently defending themselves from a sub?

  • Hattori Hanzo Gracie

    Not that I would mind Vera getting pounded on but you can’t just lay there.

  • x5BoltMainx

    The difference between Vera & Nate is that Nate didn’t lay flat on his back & cover his face. He leaned up & wrapped his arms around his opponent…closed the distance. You can’t land puches if the guys face is on your chest.
    One more shitty performance & Uncle Dana is going to make him fight at 205. He’s not paying him six figures per fight to keep this “act” going.

  • Shade

    Vera lost that fight fair and square. There were like 14 unanswered punches. He wasn’t trying to roll out of mount, he was curling into the fetal position from taking hits. The ref has to call a fight on the side of caution. Although I agree that sometimes the fights are stopped early, its because of this that this sport is safer than boxing. All Vera had to do to keep himself in the fight was do something to make it look like he was trying to get out of the mount. Not a single punch answered while he was mounted, that’s grounds for stopping a fight and it’s in the rules…

  • Alex

    Vera wasn’t defending himself, it doesn’t matter how close to the end of the round it was. Same for kimbo. At least vera was moving, I guess

  • marshal

    Vera should reassess his strategy while being mounted and stop crying. Always keep your thumbs up for the ref to see dummy.

  • Asbel

    Dan reffed the Bisping/Day fight that same night. That was a good stoppage. He let Bisping rain hard punches from Day’s back for what may be a minute. Day was doing a good job of rolling and covering to last as long as he did.

    Vera was also rolling and covering. Dan has no consistency. He let Kimbo ride out the crucifix but stopped Thompson on his feet. He let Day take at least twice as many punches to the head compared to Vera.

  • Asbel

    Also, remember the KenFlo/J-Lau fight? People were bitching about that stoppage even though all J-Lau did was coverup when KenFlo had the mount for most of the round.

  • Jersey Tomato

    I thought it was a ridiculous stoppage. Verdum may have thrown 14 unanswered strikes but only one or two did any actual damage. Vera had yet to be rocked by a single punch and was still defending himself sufficiently to ride out the end of the round (imo). Since when does blocking the other dudes punches NOT constitute intelligent defense?? Now if Vera was getting rocked by shots and it appeared certain there was no way for him to survive the round without getting KTFO’ed (or seriously hurt), then I would have no problem with the ref’s decision. But the fight never got to that point. Just because you achieve the mount and start raining punches does not mean the guy on the bottom should only have ten seconds to escape.

    Anyone remember the K-Flo / Joe Lauzon fight? The referee gave Lauzon ample opportunity to try and work his way out from beneath the high mount position. In the end, he could not do so but I seem to recall him being given a hell of a lot than ten seconds. Don’t get me wrong, I am no Vera nut-hugger and, yes, it was his undoing when he allowed Verdum to mount him so easily. But if the ref is going to stop the fight, he has got to do SOME Damage to his oponent, for Christ’s sake. Vera had every reason to be pissed by the ref’s call.

  • frickshun

    The Floria Lauzon is a good example of being in a terrible position for a LONG TIME & not getting out of it. But look @ Thiago Silva vs Houston Alexander. He was pounding on his fucking face. The ref (Herb?) started to come in, hesitated to see if Houston was conscious . . . then Silva kept pounding so the ref HAD to jump in. He still gave the opportunity til Houston went limp for a second. Vera definitely needed to try & hold, buck him off or give his back for the last 15 seconds & DIDN’T. But he only took about 2 clean shots that didn’t come close to hurting him. Usually established guys from a striking background can take punches. Vera got robbed.

  • Steve

    The difference between the Kimbo and Vera situations is this:

    Kimbo spent the better part of two minutes eating eating elbows from the half-guard and side control without doing ANYTHING.

    Vera spent 10 seconds eating punches while covering up and trying to buck his hips to roll Werdum off of him. While his buck attempts might have been completely fruitless against one of the best BJJ guys on the planet, the effort to defend himself by shucking Werdum from the mount was still there.

    You have to give a guy more than 10 seconds to escape that situation when he facing a BJJ monster like Werdum.

  • Luke Thomas

    The only person in this entire comments section who makes any sense is Steve. Seriously, it is abundantly clear not one of you trains and if you do, it’s with a poor instructor.

    The worst thing you can do when mounted is to lay on your back. Your goal is to shrimp side to side to try to at least capture half guard or hopefully full guard by creating just enough room to slide a knee through.

    Vera’s problem was that he was not only mounted by a 250lbs man, that man was also a four time BJJ world champion. He’s heavy and tight on top. Vera’s gameplan going into the fight was that if Werdum mounted him he would only roll side to side and not ever even come close to giving his back against a guy like Werdum. The problem is that Werdum’s mount makes shrimping or even rolling difficult because a) he’s enormous and b) he’s able to control your hips with tight leg positioning. Thus, Vera’s gameplan was somewhat disrupted by Werdum’s BJJ abilities in more ways than one. He couldn’t completely roll to give his back and rolling side to side was hard in and of itself.

    Whoever said you’re supposed to hug the guy on top of you has never trained a day in his life. Nate got away with it this time, but it’s not anything anyone teaches. In pure BJJ, it leaves you open to all sorts of submissions and in MMA it’s a set-up for strikes and submissions.

    If you think the stoppage was justified, ok, fine by me. But critiquing Vera’s mount escapes by saying he didn’t do a technique you invented in your own head is just pathetic.

  • fightlinker

    it is abundantly clear not one of you trains

    ^ got my new headline for the next Weekly MMA News ;-)

  • Hattori Hanzo Gracie

    “Seriously, it is abundantly clear not one of you trains and if you do, it’s with a poor instructor.”

    reason why I say away from blog sites that take themselves alittle too seriously.

  • Hattori Hanzo Gracie

    An insult without a punchline is like a massage parlor and no happy ending.

  • fightlinker

    a lof of chafing, softness, and arguments about a refund?

  • cyph

    Anyone who doesn’t train or if you do and have a crappy instructor, please refrain from ever commenting, arguing, or talking about MMA on blogs ever again.

  • cyph

    I was going to add… techniques are all well and good… until you get punched in the face and instincts take over. The best MMA student doesn’t always make the best fighter.

    Fighters have escaped with the wrong techniques such as giving up their backs, and fighters have been submitted with textbook BJJ defense.

    Lets not think too highly of ourselves. We’re all keyboard warriors here unless any of us actually fight with real competition.

  • ajadoniz

    the stoppage was premature but the outcome wouldnt have been any different. vera would have still lost.

    i can see why ppl r bitching about Dan M. (me included), Slice couldnt improve his position in the crucifix either but Dan still let him TRY and pull through… WTF?

  • RL Dookiefuck

    bad stoppage, Vera’s ear didn’t even explode

  • Niceguy

    I think the fight was stopped early. I don’t train. I have been watching MMA for years though. None of the strikes to Vera did anything even close to hurting him. Fuck, at the press conference his face was cut, bruise free. Fab got an easy, and cheap W and is one step closer to perhaps the most boring match at HW possible.