My break down of the Heavy Weight Division. Or the UFC ain’t all that.

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  • #17772

    Is the UFC’s HW division that deep? I don’t think it is.
    At every opportunity we hear Dana White talking about how deep the UFC’s heavy weight division has become. Is that really the case? Both skill wise or in interesting match-ups? I want to break down each fighter and look at where they belong in the division, and put forth the idea that there are only four really good heavy weights in the UFC and a bunch of dead weights.

    The Cream of the Crop/The real HW Division

    Brock Lesnar
    Pros: Power wrestler. Size. Will to win.
    Cons: Strikes like a baby cat, striking composure.*
    Status: The champ, and if he can beat Cain and JDS he will probably be crowned indestructible. Brock could easily grow the UFC on his own even if he isn’t champ. The mainstream seems to care about him more than any other fighter save Kimbo Slice.

    *I know that nobody likes to be hit, but what this phrase means is that you keep your composure under fire and fire back, not cover up and run.*

    Cain Velasquez
    Pros: Technical wrestling skill, Great fast hands with high accuracy, Best cardio of any other HW I can think of.
    Cons: Could possibly buckle under a big shot, but he’s shown the ability to work through it… so not really a con.
    Status: Could easily be champ in Oct. Plenty of great match-ups. If Cain becomes champion he could bring a huge Latino market to the UFC.

    Junior Dos Santos
    Pros: Excellent combos. Tight takedown def. (See Roy Nelson fight). Nice work rate/cardio.
    Cons: Still a largely unknown ground skill set.
    Status: High level contender, and could easily be the champ. Lots of great match-ups for him, and lots of potential to improve.

    Shane Carwin
    Pros: Megaton power. Takedown defense (See Brock fight pre-gassing). Wrestling.
    Cons: Cardio. Age. Slower punching rate compared to some other guys. Steroids?*
    Status: Still a possible champ and or threat to other contenders. If Carwin gets his body sorted out he could become even more beastly. Dropping some muscle and increasing his speed could only help his skill set, as he’s a power puncher.

    *Since he hasn’t been caught using steroids in the UFC I don’t see it as a real issue. I guess it depends if you hate him or not if it makes a difference.

    Honestly that’s the cream of the crop, and it’s only four elite fighters. After these four there is a massive drop off in skill, power, and or ability.

    Gate Keepers/Pride guys/Waning ability

    Mirko Cro Cop – He can’t beat Mir in a match-up that should of suited him. He’s getting old and has to be extremely comfortable to win a fight, and that’s just not going to happen all the time in the UFC. In reality Mirko has some decent wins and isn’t physically washed-up, but his fire and drive are all but gone. There is zero chance we will see him as a real contender, and will probably only put on some more crappy fights before he exits. Dana seems to be pissed at him anyway and will probably stick him on some lower level fights next year.

    Big Nog – Nog’s body is basically falling apart before our eyes. Nog has Hip problems (Ouch that’s old.) and now a new knee injury that will require more work. Nog’s chin seems to be gone and he has a serious staph infection every other fight. It’s doubtful that he will ever touch the belt again, or even a contender fight, though he could put on a decent fight for a lower level guy. The problem is Nog is only going to get worse with age because his body is shot.

    Roy Nelson – I’m putting him in here not because I think he has no ability, but because I think Roy has hit his ceiling, even though he has a lot of experience. Roy hit a big big wall with JDS. and it’s not a wall Roy could climb over with that gut. I doubt he could beat any of the top four guys at this point. It’s possible he could return and use his ground game after his knee surgery, but he seems to give up when he can’t get an easy Takedown. I see him fighting mid-level guys and maybe having a few wins, and maybe even getting a title shot if another guy gets hurt. But I don’t see him winning.

    Frank Mir – Mir has issues, but mainly in his mind. His game plans are erratic, and his focus is off. He talks about LHW, and now seems to be afraid to take chances after being mauled by Carwin. Mir has the best jitz in the division but he just won’t use it. Mir is also the only one in this group who could bust out and get a run at the title, or at least have a big money match-up. Dana White kind of hates him right now, though.

    Dead in the Water/Low level Gatekeeper

    Ben Rothwell – Rothwell just isn’t a contender, and maybe not even a gate keeper. He is one bad fight/loss away from being cut. He isn’t exciting and just doesn’t have the dynamic ability to beat any of the top guys.

    Gonzaga – At one time this guy was going to be the next champ, but he keeps losing and hasn’t put many wins together other than a lucky leg kick on Cro-cop. Gonzaga seems to be hanging around waiting to be cut or just padding the middle. I think he could possibly put together a streak and get back into gatekeeper status, but doubtful.

    Gilbert Yvel – Gilbert only seems to keep his job because Dana White likes him. His ground game isn’t that good and his striking isn’t getting the job done.

    Cheick Kongo – Never seems to step up to the plate and seems to have this tendency to knee people in the balls. Cheick is a decent striker but he got put down by Frank Mir. I doubt he’ll do much but pad the division at this point.

    Questionable Prospects/Incomplete game/Boring fat Heavy Weight

    Pat Barry – A guy with no ground game in a division of wrestlers. Where is he going to go? Plus he eats nothing but fast food. Barry put a hurting on some nobodies, but I doubt he can make much happen unless he works on a lot of things really quickly. Barry will stay around because he is easy to like and could provide some KO’s though.

    Jon Madsen – Boring decision machine. I doubt he has the skills to ever break into the top.

    Mike Russow – Horrible fighter. He got lucky really, but he has tons of heart. I doubt, as a full time cop, he’ll grow that much.

    Todd Duffee – Fired via bad attitude. Might be back after awhile, but he seems like such a prissy guy I doubt he’ll be able to swing it in the minors.

    Joey Beltran – Lost to a crazy Tuf guy. Beltran’s biggest claim to fame is his chin.

    Prospects/Works in progress/Too early to say

    These are guys who have a lot of potential and either haven’t had the chance or have choked in the spotlight. It could be years before we see anything from these guys and a lot could happen by then.

    Stefan Struve – Needs to bulk up, but has plenty of time to make his splash.
    Travis Browne – If he beats Kongo he could go places, but it’s hard to say.
    Matt Mitrione – Has heart, is crazy, continues to improve, and hits hard.
    Brendan Schaub – His chin could hold him back, but he has ability and power.
    Sean mccorkle – Seems talented, but who can say how hard it is to beat Mark Hunt.
    Brett Rogers – Putting him here because he really bit off more than he could chew because SF didn’t have anybody else to throw against Fedor/Overeem. I could see him gaining some exp. and becoming a better fighter.

    And lastly:

    Fighters who SHOULD be in the UFC/Fighters Dana White hates/Dream match-ups

    Fedor – He still has a lot of fight in him, if only he could be matched against real fighters and find his old fire. If you think he’s done you’re a fool. Fedor in the UFC is the stuff of dreams.

    Overeem – I think he could beat just about anybody in the UFC, and has a technical level of striking we haven’t seen in the UFC yet. Would love to see him against one of the top 4 or beat up any of the other guys.

    Werdum – Shouldn’t have been cut. Werdum being cut probably had more to do with Dana being a jagoff than anything else. Amazing Jitz for a heavy weight. I’d love to see him fight Frank Mir for the best HW jitz title. haha.

    Josh Barnett – Dana hates Josh with a passion, and because of his attitude I doubt he’ll be back, even if he Strikeforce folds. He is a really skilled HW though, and would put on some awesome fights. I’d love to see him face off against Brock.

    So that’s my breakdown. I’ll update it as I read through the discussion.

    #67518

    FiveBoltMain
    Member

    Barnett is a juice monkey. He has been popped three times and has never admitted it. Blames everyone else for his positive tests. That’s why he’s not in the UFC.

    Werdum gets KTFO by JDS, fights a LHW in Mike Kyle, looks like crap against Big Foot, defeats Fedor and now he’s the man? How do we know beating Fedor isn’t his ceiling? I want to see a couple more fights out of him before we declare him elite.

    Fedor will never fight in the UFC. M-1 would rather eat shit and die than let him fight in the UFC. You guys need to get that idea out of your head. He’s never coming over.

    Overeem wont fight in the UFC because he makes a lot of money in K1. The UFC wont pay him what he makes in K1 because he’s a nobody in the US. We know who he is because we’re die hard fans, but the average Joe doesn’t know who he is. If he’s willing to take a pay cut and a prorated contract, then we might see him in the UFC.

    #67523

    subo
    Member

    Brock would fuck Barnett, Fedor’s UFC future is at LHW and I’d like to see Overeem versus a top fifteen HW.

    #67529

    Omomatta
    Member

    Fedor is too old, fat and lazy to cut weight. The man doesn’t have anything left to prove. He just lost in fucking Strikeforce for crying out loud.

    If he should fight anyone, it should be Randy. End of fucking story.

    And holy shit balls was Overeem fucking huge in K1…..scary huge..

    #67530

    YEAH RIGHT
    Member

    Subo you are out of your fucking mind if you think overeem couldnt hang. I’m assuming that’s what you’re implying when you say you would like to see him fight a top 15 hw.

    #67542

    blutspender
    Member

    Though many dislike Frank Mir and hate him even more after his last fight, I’d still put him in “The real HW Division”. On the end of it, maybe, but I think he has still what it takes to be there. If you get past his annoying shittalking he is a real good fighter. Apart from his fight with Cro-Cop he has never been in a boring fight, Mir-fights are fun to watch, it doesn’t matter if he wins or lose, he is a guarantee for a memorable finish (getting his head kicked to pulp by Wes Sims, breaking Tim Sylvia’s arm, pulling a kneebar on Lesnar after showing tremendous amount of heart by surviving a hell of a beating, knocking out Nogueira, getting punished by both Lesnar and Carwin in wonderful fashion and recently kneeing Cro-Cops skull in [yeah the fight was boring but that finish.. delicious! on a side-note: I think Mir's knees are way underrated, according to Brock those knees in their second fight were closer to knocking him out than 53092913454 of Carwin's inaccurate punches]

    I still don’t get why so many people place JDS under Cain, he seems to be the more intelligent and technical fighter with more experience and he has proven himself against bigger challenges as JDS did. Nonetheless I don’t see any of the two beating Lesnar.

    #67559

    glassjawsh
    Member

    @ subo – I’d like to see you make a case that anyone but Brock or cain could beat overeem, because i don’t see that happening.

    and

    overeem vs JDS would be an absolute bloodletting (JDS would get CRUSHED by overeems handspeed)

    #67561

    sandstorm
    Member

    i would love to see overeem in the ufc, and i wouldnt be surprised if it happens someday. i love watchin the dude in k1, but how would he work against the big wrestlers in the ufc hw division? no way to know until you see it, until then its all hypothetical. but the dude has a seriously good game off his back too

    #67563

    subo
    Member

    No, I’m saying you don’t get to BE a top 15 hw until you BEAT a top 15 hw. Overeem has gobs of potential, but he has to fight someone better than Brett Rogers. I’m still picking Carwin to beat any HW not named Brock Lesnar.

    #67564

    glassjawsh
    Member

    @ subo Brett Rogers beat AA (who was top 15 at the time) then gives Fedor (who is a top 15 hw) grief before getting destroyed by Ubereem ie Overeem has beaten a top 15 HW (and will beat another on in his next fight Werdum/Fedor)

    #67566

    subo
    Member

    AA was hideously overrated before, during and after that fight. Dude hasn’t won a fight since beating Rothwell in Affliction. If Overeem beats either of those guys, he’s top ten. But not until then.

    #67567

    glassjawsh
    Member

    ^ roy nelson disagrees!

    #67568

    glassjawsh
    Member

    also going into the rogers fight his last 5 fights went like so:

    L to Fedor (KO), W against Roy (KO), W v Rothwell (KO), W v Jake OBrien (weak), W v Werdum

    not really that bad in context

    #67578

    Well, my main point is that the UFC HW division isn’t that deep, they just have a lot of big names from pride that are done, and a lot of prospects that haven’t done anything.

    Currently there are just as many good HWs out of the UFC as in, though the UFC has the potential.

    Also, if you think Fedor is done because he lost to one submission you’re an idiot and should stop talking about mma.

    #67582

    YEAH RIGHT
    Member

    but but but he’s never fought in the ufc!!11!!!one!!!1

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