Overeem: Ranked on potential?
October 27, 2010 at 10:20 pm #100658
Tanhauser, Comment #9
“James Toney didn’t come into MMA while beating world class boxers you idiot.”
I think you missed the point here. My Toney comment is in response to another comment from glassjawsh.
“the klitschko comparison is not apt at all. overeem has been training jits for 15+ years, and has a guillotine from hell, the klit brothers are big smelly hulking eastern european boxers who wouldn’t even make it as long as James Toney did on the ground.”
I never said shit about Toney until Glassjawsh brought it up. I just responded to his Toney comment.
I used the Klitschko’s as an example. Does their boxing records make them a top ten HW in mma if they decided to fight mma tomorrow? I say no. Boxing, mma, judo, and kickboxing (and more combat sports) should all have separate ranking systems. A good record in one sport should not assist your ranking in another. A top level fighter from another sport should be able to by pass the lower tier fighters, and gate keepers if they choose to. They still have to win to be ranked. If they want to start with guys like Warpath to slowly break into the sport. Even better.
I think the Klitschko’s would be dominated in the same way as Toney. I think 99% of pure boxers would have the same experience a Toney.
Don’t call people idiots. Makes you look really dumb when you miss the point.October 27, 2010 at 10:40 pm #100668
Did he really re-invent himself at HW? he’s bigger, for sure, but we haven’t seen him fighting anywhere near the level of competition he fought at LHW. Where’s the data that shows him being a “monster” on the ground?October 27, 2010 at 10:42 pm #100670
Glass – All we know about MMA HW Alistair Overeem is that he can punk Brett Rogers. THAT’S IT. You don’t get to BE top ten until you BEAT top ten. Fuck, if he beats Barnett’s overrated ass, that’s his best win at HW. If he beats BIGFOOT, that’s his best win at HW. Until then, he’s not top ten.
Have you cried about PRIDE today – Mark Kerr won the ADCC by just decisioning everyone. Qualifying by itself doesn’t necessarily mean you have awesome jew jif shoes.October 27, 2010 at 11:09 pm #100672
Look, even with the bump in skill level lately, the HW division is by FAR the worst weight division in MMA. Comparatively, it doesn’t take all that much throw yourself in the mix. If you have the size and athleticism, you’re halfway there basically, as seen by all the recent NFL rejects that are fighting in the UFC, even though they are obviously green as hell.
Overeem has the size and athleticism, no question about that. Plus K-1 level stand-up, the ability to take punishment, cardio, experience, a proven ground game, and at least all the basic submissions in his backpack. How many HW are there out there that have all that? He’s almost top 10 by default for fuck’s sake.
Then check out his background and were he trains. Remember how everyone keeps saying: “Imagine how good the next generation of fighters will be who’ve been growing up training MMA”. Well, that’s Alistair (actually, we’re probably talking pre-MMA here, more like NHB). This guy has been training at a world class gym since he was a teenager. Alistairs older brother Valentijn is a certified bad-ass with an extensive MMA record. Team Golden Glory has legendary trainers and its members’ involvement in the UFC goes back to UFC fucking 2.
At the moment I’m not even sure if I want to see him compete in MMA. I find K-1 a hell of lot more entertaining and the skill level is higher.October 27, 2010 at 11:10 pm #100673
overeem is good and demonstrates the potential to compete and possibly beat the top hws
numerical rankings are impossibly retarded so i’d say he’s a top hwOctober 27, 2010 at 11:24 pm #100675
^ Short, sweet and to the point!October 27, 2010 at 11:33 pm #100677
I saw Overeem’s european qualifier tourney win and it was in fact awesome.
He basically ran through the thing just guillotining the fuck out of everyone.
As for his K-1 career, he might only be 6-4, but he’s 1-1 with the best hw kickboxer in the world, and he did EXTREMELY well against the guy with the best defense in K-1 by a mile, Bonjasky. Knocked him down, even if they didn’t score it and you could argue he should have gotten an extension round.
But ranking him in the top 10 in mma at hw is absurd at this point.
He’s got a worthless belt and one borderline top 10 win, and that’s it.
Given the opportunity I don’t doubt for a second he’s a legit top 5 guy, but he’s not getting the fights, and ranking on anything but what’s actually happened is just fucking stupid.October 27, 2010 at 11:54 pm #100680
glassjawsh, Comment #15
“bring real facts and data and coherent opinions or stfu”
If you look at my past posts there are these things called numbers. (ex. 123456789) These numbers in most cases are fight records records. Coming from places like K1 web site, and the fight finder. These trusted sites can be considered facts. Here is some of the facts. Maybe this will help.
Fact: Every fighter on my list is rank in the top 25 USA Today/SB Nation, and Overeem has fought none of them since he reinvented himself. This “laughable” list are 19 of the best this sport has to offer at HW.
Fact: Overeem qualified for ADCC in the European Circuit.
Opinion: Europe is widely regarded as sub par compared to Brazil, and the USA.
Fact: Randy has fought a hell of a lot more top 10 fighters than Overeem.
Fact: Overeem has only fought ONE current top 25 HW, but is ranked in the top ten.
Fact: a 7-4 record does not say goat, beast, monster, or BMF.
Fact: at 0-1 Badir has a PRO record. Having a PRO record makes someone a MMA fighter, even if they hate it.
Fact: As of this post you have brought zero facts to the table to support your opinions. Lets see some numbers to back up your claims.
Fact: My opinions are very different than yours, but I try to be friendly until the insults, and STFU’s come out.
Fact: I am laughable. That’s why my motto is: “If you can’t take a joke then don’t be one.”
Fact: My spelling, and grammar is not the best, but “bring real facts and data and coherent opinions or stfu” is what is call a run on sentence. Punctuation helps too.
Opinion: K1, Boxing, Karate, Sumo, Sambo, etc. records don’t add up to shit when ranking mma.October 28, 2010 at 12:02 am #100681
Fact: Pewnt & GlassJawz are star-crossed lovers.October 28, 2010 at 12:11 am #100682
Frickshun, Comment 23
Ummmm No, Funny, but no.October 28, 2010 at 12:32 am #100684
“Alistairs older brother Valentijn is a certified bad-ass with an extensive MMA record.”
I appreciate your use of “extensive” there. Sounds so much better than “.500″. Putting Valentijn against Bigfoot is almost Greg Nagy-esque.October 28, 2010 at 12:44 am #100686
LMAO. Never let a record get into the way of a good nut hug.October 28, 2010 at 2:00 am #100689
Valentijn is a certified bad ass with an extensive record like Yvel is a Pride legend.
One of the biggest bitches to ever put on gloves and slap-fight in Rings.October 28, 2010 at 12:24 pm #100716
Subo: “I appreciate your use of “extensive” there. Sounds so much better than “.500″. Putting Valentijn against Bigfoot is almost Greg Nagy-esque.”
How does Valentijn’s winning percentage affect Alistair in any way? Now? Way to go if you wanted to show you totally missed my point.October 28, 2010 at 2:49 pm #100718
Yes he’s ranked on potential in MMA. His record in MMA is not amazing, although he has a nice win streak going.
But I don’t care a whole lot about the details on rankings. It’s almost irrelevant.
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