With all the linking and loving and laughter and comments here the past few days, we’ve also attracted another kind of attention: spambots! And while my standards as far as commenters go are pretty low, one rule I wanna keep is no goddamn fucking robots! I’ve seen I, Robot. I’ve also seen Bladerunner. So I know what’s coming. At first the robots are nice. They offer you viagra and ringtones and other sweet things. But next thing you know, they’re gouging out your eyes with their bare hands, screaming for the humanity you’ve denied them.
So fuck that shit. I’ve just set up a new spam blocker, so just a heads up … if your post is all about dildos or erections or naked celebrities, it might get caught up for a few hours. I’ll do my best to make sure your filth gets through but robot filth doesn’t.
Well, it’s officially “Michael Bipsing / Matt Hamill” day, where all we’re gonna talk about is Michael Bisping, Matt Hamill, bad judging, and other related chicanery. Okay not really, but it certainly feels like it lately. Up first is Dana White’s reaction to the whole situation:
“These controversies that come up don’t mean a thing to me and they roll off my back with no problem because I know it’s all (expletive),” he said. “We’re the top dogs and every little thing we do is news and people create these wacky (expletive) conspiracies. The bottom line is, we’ve embraced regulation, we want the sport to be regulated everywhere, but I’m not going to stop putting fights in the U.K. just because they don’t have a commission.”
Dana White is so preoccupied with the criticism of his company that he’s failing to acknowledge the root of this particular situation: that the judging for MMA is quickly proving itself to be broken.
Let’s put it this way: if you build a robot to wash dishes, and it washes dishes 99 times out of 100 but kills a baby 1 time out of 100, that’s still not the kind of robot you want to keep. At the very least you would consider opening that robot up and seeing what the fuck makes it slice kids up. This kind of shit happens all around the world with all sorts of products … Dell laptops catch fire, Chinese toys have lead in them. But the difference between them and the UFC is that Hasbro isn’t saying “Fuck all you fuckers, we’re all about safety and regulation so it’s not our fault when shit goes bad.”
Hey, unlike all those people out there busting balls about ‘the Zuffa Myth’, I’ll simply say thank you to Zuffa for pushing for regulation across America. It’s great that they stepped up and took the lead on that. But now they need to step up and do something about judging. Because even if incompetent judges aren’t the UFC’s ‘fault’, it’s still their problem.
Dana White always said that boxing got the heart ripped out of it by promoters who cared more about their bank account than the condition of the sport. Well, one of the biggest things that killed boxing was controversial decisions and bad judging. So I’d say this is a pretty high priority issue if the UFC wants to continue to grow.
How many more high profile screwjobs on free TV is it going to take before the casual fan dismisses the sport as bullshit? Why is everyone concentrating on the ten point must system as the problem when it’s obviously gutless and incompetent judging? How in God’s name did we end up with a system that allows bad judges to stay and bad calls to stand?
How hard is it to make people accountable for their actions? Accountability is kinda a fundamental aspect of society … we hold people accountable for doing bad things. If they fuck up at their job, we fire them. If they fuck up in life, we put them in jail. When they do really bad things, we kill them. Since killing isn’t enough sometimes, we invented a God to add the prospect of an everlasting bitchslap. So why is it so hard to implement the same kind of system for MMA judges?
A bit round in the face but overall not too shabby for a greasy hippy! Actually he looks more like a caveman in that top picture. I’d call him the Geiko Caveman but Tony DeSouza owns that one … and really, it’s all poor Tony’s got left.
I’m not gonna bore people who don’t give a shit about this by posting this whole thing on the front page. But if you go after the jump you can read Joe Rogan’s opinion of the Bisping/Hamill debacle, as well as judge Jeff Mullan’s justifications. If there’s any other people feeling shamed enough to try and convince us they aren’t corrupt or incompetent, I’ll update this post with their thoughts too.
**Updated** Cecil People’s explanation has been added.
Joe Rogan (smokes lots of weed, doesn’t think we landed on the moon)
I’ve gotten a ton of emails about this, and I’ve seen all the threads here about it so I thought I would make a reply. I thought that clearly the most damage in the fight was done by Hamill in the first round. That was really the only time anyone was hurt. Hamill hit Bisbing with a huge right hand and had him hurt very badly. Hamill got some takedowns after that, but was unable to do any significant damage from them.
As for scoring, I just walked in the door from London, so I’ll have to look at the fight again and see what I think, but I remember when the fight was over I thought that if I had to bet, I would say that Hamill was going to walk away with a close decision. The first round was clearly his, the second was probably his as well, and I thought Bisbing did enough to win the third.
At the time I honestly didn’t think the decision was that crazy. We see so many fucking weird scorecards in the UFC that maybe I’m just getting used to it.
For instance, if I’m not mistaken, one of the judges in the Clay Guida vs Marcus Arellio fight scored the fight for Arellio, and I thought that was just fucking insane. Fortunately the other two saw it for Guida and he walked away with the win, but it’s an example of how goofy the scoring can be sometimes.
As for anyone telling me what to say or who to put the emphasis on during the commentary, I can tell you 100% that it has never happened. The ONLY thing that the ufc has ever asked me not to do, was mention Pride by name when they were in the middle of negotiations and shit was getting ugly between them. This was around the time when they had Wanderlei come into the UFC and challenge Chuck with a Pride T shirt on, and the UFC had felt like they were getting played and that Pride was using the negotiations to get free publicity for Pride in the USA and that they didn’t really have intentions to have any of their fighters come over here.
I thought regardless of the decision, the Hamill Bisbing fight was very entertaining, and both guys fought their hearts out. Coming on here and shitting on Bisbing for his performance is just ignorant. He did his best against a powerful guy that surprised him with some new found skills and a good game plan. The decision isn’t going to hurt Hamill in any way, and in fact it probably made him some new fans. It’s certainly not going to hurt him in the long run with the UFC. If I was advising Bisbing, I would probably tell him to drop down to 185. He walks around at 205 with a little body fat, and if he changed his diet and concentrated on the lighter weight class I think it suits his frame more.
I think there have been some really insightful posts on here about scoring, and some very good suggestions. One of them that I think we should look in to, is announcing the scorecards after each round. That could possibly help, and the only downside I can think of is that it would make some guys that are ahead ease up and take fewer chances because they know they’ve got a win in the bank if they can just coast. A way around that would be finishing bonuses for a submission or KO.
Overall though, I think this decision outlines a real problem that we have in this sport using a scoring system that was designed for boxing. I believe we need to use a more comprehensive system that quantifies each aspect of the sport. It’s not going to be easy to come up with, but I think that decisions like this are going to eventually force a change. Personally, I prefer the scoring that they used in Pride where they judge the fight as a whole and count the damage being scored at the end more highly.
Jeff Mullen (scored the bout 29-28 Bisping)
Hello to everyone on the Underground. I have been reading the underground for years. I used to post quite a bit. Then I decided it would be better for me to stay out of all the arguments. I want to thank all of you guys for being so nice to me through the years. I have seen almost no negative posts about me here until now.
I first started judging the UFC in 1996. I have been judging UFC almost twice as long as any other active judge. I am a former kick boxer and have been training grappling for 13 years. I am not here to argue with any of you or tell you that your opinion is wrong. I am only going to tell you why I judged the fight the way I did. Watch the fight again and turn off the sound. Commentary can color what you see.
No doubt Bisping dominated the 1st. He hurt Bisping with a right hand right off the bat and again near the end of the round. He out scored Bisping and busted him up. It was a very impressive round for Hamill but still a 10-9 round. Not dominate enough for a 10-8. Watch the beginning of the second round closely. When Hamill throws the jab, Bisping slips the punch and hits him with his own counter jab. It is hard to see on camera because Hamill?s back is to the camera. His back was also to Goldie who was talking like the beginning of this round was like a continuation of the 1st. If you look you will see that Hamill is facing me giving me a clear view of what is landing. Bisping was landing the jab again and again and not getting hit.
Hamill got 2 takedowns in rounds 2 and 3 but did very little with them. Bisping is using an active guard trying to turn for armbars and sweeps, Hamill is doing very little on top. Bisping is keeping him from scoring or improving his position. In the 3rd round Bisping actually lands more punchesd from the bottom than Hamill does from the top. In both the 2nd and 3rd rounds Bisping does more scoring. Striking.
Under pride style scoring Hamill would have won. He did more damage, but it was all in the 1st round. By 10 point must system Bisping won the fight 2 rounds to 1 . 29-28 Bisping. Sometime the angle you see the fight effects your decision. That is why they put the judges on 3 different sides.
BY THE WAY MARIO YAMASAKI THOUGHT BISPING WON ROUNDS 2 AND 3 ALSO. MARIO WAS THE REF AND HAD A BETTER VIEW THAN ANY OF US. I have never taken a payoff as some of you have suggested and never will. You may not agree with my decision but please don?t question my honesty.
Cecil Peoples (scored the bout 29-28 Bisping) -from the fight network
Peoples, a judge for over 40 UFC events, doesn’t argue that this latest malestrom’s first round went to Hamill and the third to the Englishman, deeming the second period the only one open for debate.
“I gave Bisping the second round, first because Hamill was beginning to run out of gas after the first round,” said Peoples. “Bisping fought like he wanted that fight. He came back aggressive [from the first round]. Hamill did take him down, but he did nothing with the takedown. Overall, Bisping was more aggressive. Hamill just held him down. Bisping’s punching was more effective.”
Peoples, who sat equidistant to judges Mullen and Watts cageside, says his decision was nothing personal, but one based heavily on human interpretation under the structure he was given to work in. Peoples awarded Bisping the final round based on the amount of damage he incurred on Hamill, and said that the Brit’s hometown popularity had no bearing in his thought process.
“I have no vested interest in either one of them,” said Peoples. “I could probably walk past both of them on the street and still not know who they are.”