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Sonnen wasn’t fucked over, he was just fucked

MMAWeekly has the best picture around to give you a real idea of how ‘controversial’ the Filho-Sonnen stoppage was. I don’t know what’s the most telling: Sonnen’s arm being hyperextended, Sonnen’s facial expression, or Filho’s smile. You don’t need to know Portugeese to understand what that shit is all about.

  • Beau

    That crowd was bullshit last night. I can’t believe they were booing Filho and chanting bullshit. Sonned was totally fucked. That armbar was deep and his arm was fully extended. On top of that, he verbally tapped by screaming like a bitch the second his arm got extended. He didn’t say “No” to the referee until the fight had already been stopped and Filho was no longer snapping his arm in two. The second replay they show from the front side clearly shows him screaming in agony. Good stop by the ref, the fans are fucking retarded.

  • KilerBootsMan

    Sonnen claimed that he told the ref “No, no, no!” (don’t stop the fight), but all I heard was “AHHHHH! Oh no! Oh no! Oh no!”

  • fightlinker

    I wanna make a photoshop of this pic where Sonnen has huge crossed googley eyes and a big caption that says NOOOOOOOOOO!

    But I’m at work so I can’t. :-(

  • Leland Roling

    The crowd was rather ill-informed. Sonnen was about to have his arm ripped off. Filho’s strength is well-known to be insane at his weight class. Even when Filho almost had the other armbar attempt sunk in, Sonnen just sat there and couldn’t move his arm because Filho had it inside his Pitbull guard and was just using so much power yanking on it that Sonnen could only WATCH Filho try to break it.

    One aspect that I found odd, many people didn’t mention the fact that Filho got ROCKED hard right off the bat. Sonnen was yelling that he was out, and he was definitely “out of it” and completely stunned. It’s somwhat amazing that Filho managed to recover even while being dominated for most of the first round.

  • Matt (tapout name shitstain)

    He’s lucky he didn’t get choked out earlier.

  • vess

    I agree with …. the fans. Bullshit stoppage. Did Filho have enough leverage, he was against the cage, to finish the armbar? We will never know. Furthermore, the ref said he made a mistake in stopping the fight and apologized to Sonnen.

  • fightlinker

    he might have said sorry for stopping it but i doubt that means he would have done things differently if he had the chance again. Watching the show proves that Sonnen didn’t say no till AFTER the stoppage, so why would he be right about what the ref said afterwards either?

  • bmiller

    In UFC 55 Renato Sobral had Chael Sonnen in an ankle lock. Sonnen yelled and screamed while he was grabing the cage. And he was able to get out of the lock and the ref didnt stop that fight. Sonnen would rather have his arm broken than tap. But the ref was probably doing him a favor by stopping the fight and keeping Sonnen from have to do 6 months of therapy.

  • Foreskin Face Pete

    put it to bed, cuz sonnen also after the fight said he was at fault for falling into the damn thing in the first place.

  • JiuJitsu365

    The ref’s job is to protect the fighters, especially from themselves. A meme is starting to develop that if you don’t tap out then the fight should go on.

    No. If your arm looks like it is about to be snapped or ripped from the socket then the fight should be stopped. Just like Speers should have lost to Saunders when he was caught in that armbar. Saunders later recounts that Speers told him that his arm wasn’t the same for two weeks…..

  • Wu Tang

    This can be looked at it in different ways, his arm was defnitily hyper extended, and let me tell you…. that fucken hurts, even just 1 micro second and he would have been fucked up and not able to train/move his arm for days, if not months (there is a nerve that stings every so often in my right arm… due to armbars). Thats one perspective, another can be that he is just hard headed. There is a creedo when entering a bjj school, leave your ego at the door, and in this case Sonnen showed his ego, instead for his safty, granted that he ‘may’ have gotten out of it (how? turn his hands inside clockwise, twist his arm, crunch his body and just punchi Filho silly, easier said than done, hehe). So yeah… It can be looked at differently… I would have said that Sonnen should NEVER take Filho down, he was owning the WEC Middle Weight Champion on his feet, taking this to the ground is just entering dangerious territory, this case its a pittbull who couldnt even scratch his back, unless theres a tree near by…. He also likes to bury his leftovers from dinner.

  • Accomando

    Yeah, the ref should have stopped it, his arm was done for.

    But, to me, this is all in material anyway. All that dumbfuck Sonnen had to do was to keep that fight standing, it wouldn’t have made it past the 3rd. Instead he continued to put Filho on his back and then get nearly submitted, idiot, got what was coming to him.

  • Michaelthebox

    Uhh, I don’t know if that was intentional JiuJitsu365, but you just gave a real good example of why a fight SHOULDN’T be stopped just because a fighter is caught.

  • vess

    Sonnen screamed after the intial torque of the arm, he had time after the scream to tap. He did not. I am sure Sonnen knows his body and pain threshold better than the ref does. The ref was a wussy.

  • Jersey Tomato

    If Sonnen had wished to tap he could have done it with his right arm which was right there for the ref to see. Fighters risk injury all the time in the ring and, while he was probably doing Chael a favor, it is not the referee’s discretion to assume a fighter has wants tap. I have seem numerous instances of fighters wincing in pain as they worked out of similar submissions. The round would have been over in less than 10 seconds. It was Sonnen’s call to make, not the refs.

    Disclosure: I was rooting for Sonnen all the way. With about 20 seconds left in the round, I thought “just stand up now…you have this round won easily.” Oh, well.

  • Mobb Deep

    Whats wrong with the good old tap or snap policy people? I think thats the best way to go. I seen many fights in which it looked like a limb was about to break and the fighter was in pain, yet they managed to escape. Once a limb is broken, yeah the ref should get in, but fighters getting out of impossible situations is part of the exitement of MMA. Plus, breaking a limb is not life threatening like getting hit in the head is.

  • Ryan

    Sonnen should not have screamed if he didn’t want it stopped. I’m sorry, screaming in pain = verbal submission. There should be absolutely no reason to say anything during a fight, and making eye contact with ref + hyper extended arm + screaming in pain = ???
    (btw, think about all the times someone has been in a submission that was as deep as that, and hasn’t screamed? Was the fight stopped before the fighter tapped? I can only think of one instance, Stephens/Thomas. Otherwise, consider Franca/Varner (almost identical sub), Franklin/Okami (looked way nastier), stupid Tommy Speers on TUF, countless other examples)

    Same thing goes for his bullshit “he’s out, he’s out!” Oh really? Then fucking prove it, dipshit. If you guys are gonna claim “tap or snap,” doesn’t that also mean the fight isn’t over until the ref pulls you off the other guy? Or wait… maybe Sonnen was just bein’ a good guy, looking out for Filho’s health (just like Arona was looking out for Rampage’s…). Give me a break, you guys will come up with any excuse to hate on PRIDE fighters.

    And for the record, Filho looked like shit and would get completely tooled by the majority of the top 10 185’ers. I don’t like Filho either, and think he’s 1 dimensional and ABSOLUTELY did ‘roids in PRIDE. But the circumstances around his win were NOT that shady, and I’m glad we didn’t have a destroyed arm on national television.

  • Ryan

    Oh wait, I thought of another example when a figher didn’t tap but the fight was still stopped: Sylvia-Mir.

  • Wu Tang

    Hey Ryan.. have you ever been in an armbar? Let me tell you, the angle that Sonnen was in isnt that pretty, yet it is escapable (go to my comment up and you can read how to escape it, also like to add that Filho’s legs arent in a good position, yet hes a black belt and im just a high blue belt (for 3 yeras now… fuck), so i dont know shit). Ok, back to where i was getting at, His arm is VERY hyper extended. Just like a good ol’knee bar, one cm of movement can IMPAIR you for quite a while and probably for the rest of your life (never pintching). Ans as for the Okami/Franklin comment, no this is more severe than that, Americana is quite easy to get out of, and in Okami’s position, it is quite easy, just takes some manouvering (SP?), guts, and not having your arm snapped. This position is tougher to get out of, chances are very slim, it was the right move for the ref to stop it. There is a big difference in americana (arm lock) vs arm bar. Be put in one and see which is easier to get out of. Getting caught in holds is nothing more than ego, the question is, how badly do you want to get out of it vs health conditions after the hold… My ego is out the door when i train, my arm is already been hyper extened too many times, i guess its a matter of opinions here. *sigh*

  • fightlinker

    yup, armbars are kinda my bread and butter at the moment, I use em all the time in class. A good armbar is all about using your waist/hips as a pivot to really hyperextend the arm. Lots of people just pull the arm back and straighten out the body which works but to really get the most bang for your buck you use your waist as the ‘joint’ in the armbar so you really torque that bastard.

    Dunno if that explanation was good enough … I’m not gonna say he couldn’t have gotten out of that armbar but i’m saying he had very very slim chance. The guy had maybe 2 more seconds before Filho had broken the arm at the joint, and that would have been Chael out for 2008.

    I see no difference between this stoppage and stoppages due to strikes before a guy is really KO’ed … we know where this is going. Maybe 1 time in a million the guy would have gotten out of it. But for those 999,999 times, be happy the ref stepped in and saved that guy’s arm.

  • Ryan

    Hey Wu Tang, I have been in an armbar before… in fact, I got hyperextended and had to take off training for 3 months. No joke.

    You’re absolutely right about the angle. Not to mention, the fulcrum in that type of armbar isn’t on the hips, so it has way less force. That’s besides the point, in my opinion. If he verbally submits, he verbally submits. I think Tim Sylvia is a total wuss for tapping out to an achilles lock, considering they don’t do any serious damage, but that doesn’t mean if he screams out in pain it shouldn’t be stopped.

    Again, Chael just needs to keep his big mouth shut. If he hadn’t screamed, they would have a MUCH better argument on premature stoppage (because like people keep saying, it’s Sonnen’s arm, he knows how close he is). However, combine that with the verbal submission… no question it was the right move.

    Thanks for not being a jerk in your response and with your questions.

  • RoB

    If big John was ref, Sonnen’s arm would belong to a brazillion prostitute right about now

  • MacDaddy

    Armbars? You better learn some better shit than that before you fight Caplan, man, he’s got that Keith Jardine goatee, it’s badass in a “I used to be on DeGrassi high, and nonw I rob convenience stores” kind of way…..

    You need to get you some Anaconda chokes, and arm triangles triangles, and can openers, crucifixes and maybe even an electric chair….

  • fightlinker

    Can openers are pretty simple, I can tap a lot of people in class with them but you get a rep for being ‘that asshole that does the canopener’ when you do them. Triangles I got down, crucifixes aren’t really practical but i always go for the one arm pin, never heard of the electric chair.

    Sam’s going down, peeps. You just wait and see.

  • Wu Tang

    Lets see… you been training for less than 6 months (bjj), your stand up is weak at best…. Your take downs are… Dont know, u never said anything about your wrestling skills…. Ok, what i can say is that you have to work on your athelticism. Your ground game is going to need work, your goin up against osmeone who prob has 1-4 years of bjj/grappling, which means that your fucked if it ihits the gorund. Sam is also a kick boxer, so his stand up isOK at best. You have alot to work on, you may lose on paper.. Who knows, keep your hands up, work your escapes (very important) and hopefor the best.

  • fightlinker

    Hey, Sam’s been a pro writer for several years more than me and I already do that better than him too. I can’t pretend that I’ve trained longer. But I can say that I’m training smarter, and harder. There’s no fucking way I’m going to lose.

  • Wu Tang

    One word.. FUCK HIM UP, MAKE HIS ARM LOOK LIKE SONNEN!!! Ok thats like one sentence rather than one word, you get my drift! Beat that pencil pusher up!! Make him wish he named his sight 5 ounces of blood lost!! :P

  • Xavier

    If you don’t want the ref doing the armbar stoppage… don’t get fucking armbarred. Pretty simple rule.

  • Mobb Deep

    Fuck FL, your a Canadian, so just grab that fucker by the back of the neck and swing away hockey style. War Leafs, fuck your Habs.

  • kentyman

    Yeah, make him look like Yoshihiro Takayama after Don Frye.

  • marshal
  • marshal
  • MacDaddy

    The electric chair is one of those bullshit moves that Eddie Bravo made up so that he could keep putting out instructional videos. He’s probably the only person in the world that can do it.

    It never ceases to amaze me that people can keep putting out instructional videos for a martial art style that has about 30 useful basic concepts, none of which you can learn from a DVD. Eddie bravo is a pretty entertaining guy though. He should forget the instructional vids and just make a jiujitsu-based sitcom.

  • kentyman

    He should forget the instructional vids and just make a jiujitsu-based sitcom.

    How I Sub’ed Your Mother?

    Will & Gracie?

    I’ve got nothing…

  • fightlinker

    Will and Gracie made me laugh

  • MacDaddy

    me too.