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Those knees

As you can see, Evan Dunham made the mistake of lifting his hand off the ground to try and stop Melvin Guillard from kneefucking him in the face – which funny enough made that second knee a legal shot. I had originally thought that the third and final knee caught Dunham’s arm more than his face but as you can see from ZombieProphet’s slo-mo gif, that ain’t the case.

Soooooooo … yeah. This is another fun little grey zone where MMA’s rules kinda break down.

  • Predator8u

    dam that looks pretty bad. Dunham fell right after the illegal knee.

    It could of been like that Jon Jones illegal elbow situation when
    “because of the illegal blow the fight was stopped”
    but luckily the commisson moves oh so slow.

  • Grappo

    Every time he lowered his head in this fight he got blasted by something.

  • themachiavellian

    Such a bad rule…

  • P W

    Rules like this one aren’t just stupid and impossible to follow – they make today’s MMA a watered down version of what it used to be.

  • subo

    He was done before the final knee.

  • Symbul

    Awful rule that needs to go. See also: Lowe on his knees daring Freire to throw the knee.

  • G Funk

    I 2nd Sube-oh’s statement.

  • shillyer


    I feel like some of your other posts have made seem like someone who is caught up in the rules. So my question is, what does it matter if he was done before the illegal knee? Either arbitrary rules like the kneeing rule or don’t take steroids are important or they are not.

  • subo

    ^ I believe it does. The ref had already called the fight and was on his way over when it happened. At that point, the fight is already over and any extra shot is just kind of incidental.

    I don’t know the exact rule, but I do know that the ref is the one that calls an illegal strike, and that didn’t happen here.

  • CRM_Stephen

    Fight was over before the illegal blow. Fine him, but you can’t complain about the win.

  • fishead

    I dunno… watching the slo-mo version I don’t see any movement on the part of the ref indicating that he’s stopping the fight. He’s circling to get a view – but isn’t moving towards the fighters – and there’s no doubt that last knee is an illegal strike, as Dunham’s knee is on the ground.

    Not sure what my point is, ’cause I think the rules against knees to a ‘grounded’ opponent is kind of bullshit – I can see why knees to a prone opponent are illegal, but this ‘three points’ thing is lame.

  • NinjaCodah

    bah it was clearly illegal, regardless of whether or not the fight was about to be stopped. But like everybody else here, I’d rather just ignore it than see a another DQ in a one-sided ass whoopin’.

    Melvin should have known better though…

  • Oontyex

    people should be punished for not defending themselves,
    this fingers on the ground thing is total bullshit and a blatant abuse of a badly worded rule

    there should be no reward for making a decision to proctect urself less and douche bags like him and stun gun should get blasted by fans for doing it

    this lame rule and the elbow one should be removed

  • DJ ThunderElbows

    Yeah, that 12-to-6 elbow rule is turrible. Plus we should have knees and kicks on the ground.

    But the elbow rule especially.

  • Blackula Jonez

    The first 2 knees did the most damage, the final knee was a punctuation point more than anything.

    The 3 point illegal knee rule is bullshit along with the 12 to 6 elbow rule.

    At the end of the day it wasn’t like Dunham was winning and that third knee changed everything, Melvin was just going for the finish.

    You would think that fans would be happy a Greg Jackson fighter is finishing fights.

  • glassjawsh

    @ P W – “Rules like this one aren’t just stupid and impossible to follow – they make today’s MMA a watered down version of what it used to be.”

    I 2nd that motion, we need to move back to the unsanctioned, unwatchable, NHB that was nearly wiped off the earth! OR the sport just evolved

  • CAP

    Melvin looked good I hope he can keep his head on straight. Cocaine is a helluva drug.

  • Oontyex

    are you serious glassjaw.. the rules of 12-6 elbows and knees to the heads of people on all fours (or people choosing to expose their head to touch their fingers to the ground.. more often) are not what keeps the sport sanctioned

    the origins of the rules are childish (karate douchers breaking wood.. ffs really?!), the resulting restriction is stupid (who would have ever thought the best defence against a knee to the head after a failed shot was to touch the ground??) and the implementation is inconsistent

    abuse of loopholes in rules should be criticized not defended – the term ‘grounded’ needs to be redefined, if they dont want stomps or soccer kicks or north-south knees to the head or what not, change ‘grounded’ to being ‘at least 1 shoulder on the ground’ or ‘hips on the ground’, only by this rediculous definition is a tackle stance ‘grounded’ every time i see someone do it i wish theyd get kicked in the face pride style

  • P W

    “I 2nd that motion, we need to move back to the unsanctioned, unwatchable, NHB that was nearly wiped off the earth! OR the sport just evolved”

    “Evolved”? I think the word you’re looking for is REGRESSED.

    Fighters are just getting better and better at using senseless and useless rules to their advantage, making MMA a joke in the process.

  • subo

    ^That’s unavoidable. As the general class of MMA gets better, you’re going to see more gaming of the rules (whatever they are) and better gameplanning, thus less ZOMG SLUGFESTS. I’d like to see knees on the ground allowed, but let’s get sanctioned in NY before we ask a few dozen commissions to make the exact same rules changes at the exact same time.

  • DaddyPants

    indeed, after it gets legalized in NY i am hoping to see a push for some rule changes (like making it okay for knees and soccer kicks to a grounded opponent and for them to throw out that stupid 12to6 elbow rule). i never understood people like Pat Militech and Josh Thompson that are so vocal about prohibiting elbows on the ground (to make the commission rules mirror the strikeforce ones), because to me it would be better to have less rules about which types of strikes you can use, not more. i think we’ve evolved alot with this sport since the NHB days, but i do wish there were less of these cumbersome rules to work with. why not be more strict about some things (like cheating) and change some of the dumber shit (like the 10 point must system)? do we have to seriously wait until all these geriatric boxing monkeys retire or die before we can get a rule set that applies to our sport?

    ^@subo, i half agree with what you said. within the present set of rules these guys fight in, i agree that we will see less slugfests and more game planning as people learn to work better within the confines of this rule set. but don’t you think that when the rules begin to open up in the future and the MMA fighter is more free to employ all the weapons at his disposal, that we’ll see WAY more fire fights in the octagon? i think the only thing holding these so called boring fighters back is certain rules. if you take your average “lay and pray” master and give him the ability to throw knees on the ground, i think you’ll see a much more exiting fight. same with the elite stand up guys and the elbow rule. when we change some of these rules it will be like throwing gas on the fire of MMA. right now these guys are fighting with a governor on their engines, imagine this sport if they were allowed to really open up.

    also, i hope they one day start using yellow cards in the UFC. that would fix lots of these slow fights, especially the ones involving the decision masters that ride the clock with the clinch hug.