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UFC 139 Wrap up

(pic via the Fox Sports UFC 139 gallery)

More chatter on how Hendo vs Shogun should have been judged. First, Dana White:

“Without a doubt, it was one of the top three best fights ever in MMA, without a doubt. I have so much respect for both of those guys to dig down that deep in a five round fight. That was like our Ali-Frazier three you know what I mean, it was incredible. This is one of those tough fights. In the first round, they both knocked each other down, you give Henderson the first three rounds, you give Shogun four, and you give Shogun 10-8 in the last round for a dominate round; it’s a draw. It’s one of those tough ones but that’s how I scored it. But who the hell am I?”

www.youtube.com/watch?v=67p_fKfYtG8

And here’s Hendo after the fight with an IV stuck in his arm talking about how he thought things went. He argues that he shoulda won a 10-8 round somewhere in those first three. And now Shogun, who unsurprisingly thinks he should have won as well:

“I don’t know how the judges scored the last round. It could have been or should have been a 10-8 round. But that doesn’t take anything away from Dan Henderson. He is a legend and those are the type of fights that create a legacy,” said Rua.

Rua is looking forward to seeing a replay of the fight.

“I’m going to rest with my family now and take care of myself. Then I’m going to go back and look at the tapes. I want a rematch and I think this would be another great battle and one the fans would definitely want to see,” said Rua.

I hate going to Fightmetric with all this because I always reserve the right to say they’ve got their shit wrong, but here’s what they’re saying. On the 10 point must system, the fight ‘should have’ been a draw, but via their wacky performance calculations, Shogun did more to win.

Maybe Dana White was right: this fight was a bit too bloody for the feint of heart. Check out Dan Henderson’s shorts following the fight!

(gifs via Iron Forges Iron)

Here’s Michael MacDonald winning last night’s KO award. The UFC threw in two Fight of the Night bonuses, going to Wanderlei Silva vs Cung Le and Dan Henderson vs Shogun Rua. Urijah Faber rounds things up with his sub over Brian Bowles. All fighters received 70k.

Speaking of Urijah Faber, he just may be one of the coaches for the new live season of TUF:

“We’ve got some ideas we were getting together tonight and talking about,” White said. “We’ve got to talk to Urijah and Cruz first. Cruz just had hand surgery, so he’s out for a little bit, but we have an idea. We have a plan.”

When Faber made the suggestion that he and Cruz could be the coaches for Season 15 of “Ultimate Fighter,” White raised his eyebrows as if to confirm that the pair have been discussed as possible candidates.

As for what’s next for Dan Henderson…

“He could do 185 or 205, he could do both. He can fight in both weight classes,” White told the post-event press conference. But he said that Henderson’s decision might depend more on when he can get a title fight than against who.

“I’m sure it would be a matter of timing. I’m sure with him, it would be whichever one he could get first,” he explained.

Interestingly enough, it sounds like Anderson Silva is even less likely than Jon Jones … rumor has it his shoulder injury may keep him out until June.

Not so pretty any more are you, mister movie star???

  • Mal666

    man you guys watched the fight right ?? Hendo clearly won the fight it should of been called by ref when Rua went out cold anyways .He was just holding on for a ride for first three rounds ..A draw would of been a disgrace to the so called sport mma ..I prefer the gypsy travelling fight club ….

  • iamphoenix

    lol cung le looks like a zombie…and that’s not where q tips go bro.

  • P W

    “Without a doubt, it was one of the top three best fights ever in MMA, without a doubt.”

    Dana, you twat, if you feel the need to stress “without a doubt” not only once but twice, clearly you’re compensating for the fact that your statement in fact is highly doubtful.

  • Reverend Clint

    i think it was close but hendo won. the first three were clearly hendo and last two were rua. Im not sure rua really did enough to warrent a 10-8. Rua took far more damage and punishment than hendo did.

  • Night Rider

    Agree with Rev… Rua did dominate last two rounds but Hendo fuckstomped Rua the first three. That said Hendo needs to work on his cardio if he wants to throw like that again.

  • glassjawsh

    1st round 10-9 Hendo (could be argued 10-10 but judges don’t know what that means)
    2nd round 10-9 Hendo
    3rd round 10-8 Hendo (if you nearly finish a dude during a round you would have won anyhow, you deserve a 10-8)
    4th round 10-9 Shogun
    5th round 10-8 Shogun (if Jon Fitch’s 3rd round against BJ was a 10-8 round then Shogun beating the ever living fuck out of an exhausted Dan Henderson certainly must be as well)
    47-46 Hendo (which is why I have no problem with the scores)

    also, Shogun Rua is one of the toughest mother fuckers in the history of fight sport. to take a protracted beating for 15 minutes and then come back and nearly pull off a draw. astonishing really….

    kind of puts his fight with Jon Jones into perspective (and make Bones seem REALLY REALLY scary by comparison)

    edit: I originally scored the first 3 rounds 30-27 Hendo, then was too busy screaming at my computer like a psychopath to bother with scoring rounds. but upon 2nd viewing this is the conclusion i came to.

  • subo

    I’ll have to rewatch the 3rd.  I’m stingy as fuck with my 10-8s, but Shogun got himself one in the 5th.  Not so sure about the 3rd.

  • P W

    Bah, who cares about individual rounds? Hendo came closer to finishing the fight, but Shogun had some serious momentum going towards the end. Close, but Hendo won in my opinion (although a draw would be a nice conclusion to a long back-and-forth affair).

  • subo

    Maybe I should bring back my idea where we just judge the last round of the fight.  Wouldn’t have changed the action – they were both trying to murder each other the entire time.

  • FilmDrunk

    This is totally a gut-level thing I can’t really justify with math in any way, but I feel like if you take the best a guy’s got and end the fight dominating him, you should win, even if the other guy technically was winning for more of the fight or did more damage. It’s whatever team is ahead at the END of the game, you know? You fight THROUGH adversity. The fact that Shogun got the shit kicked out of him and still dominated the last two rounds makes him feel like the winner, in my opinion. And I say this as someone who was rooting for Hendo (because Shogun’s shitty techno walk-up music just makes me assume he’s kind of a douche).

  • glassjawsh

    ^ fail. by your logic if a football team goes down 42-0 at half and then scores 38 unanswered in the second, you’d expect us to forget what happened in the first because of how sweet the comeback was even though for the whole game (fight) they were behind on the scoreboard (cards)

  • Letibleu

    Another way of looking at it is Rua had nothing for Dan until Dan gassed. Hendo beat Hendo the last 2 rounds.

  • lukustra

    wow, ridiculous how last impressions impact your judgment. hendo had him hanging on by a nail for 3 rounds and did infinitely more damage in the fight.the 3rd could have been a 10-8 and should have been stopped. and the ineffectiveness of the mount makes it a10-9. hendo himself said nothing was hurting him in that mount.

  • Oontyex

    as with the franky fight, these fight highlights the need for a clear requirement for 10-8 or 10-7 rounds.

    My intuition is kind of with filmdrunk on this, because unlike the ball games analogy glass makes, with fights, unlike ball games the final is more than the sum of the rounds

    e.g. – with the silva-sonnen fight, there is no ball game comparision, in fighting a guy can be winning for most of the time, but all that matters is the final outcome – the intuition is kinda the same here, with the final outcome of this fight being shogun wailing on an almost defenceless hendo for 10min

  • Reverend Clint

    well them why now have them judge like the japanese used to in pride

  • Oontyex

    the problem with pride reffing wasnt the concept of taking the fight as a whole, it was the refs.
    theres a huge problem that in many fights, a fighter can edge out a round to get a 10-9 by doing slightly more in an uneventful round, then the other fighter can dominate a round- but not enough to 10-8 , and on the judges cards things are even going into the 3rd, which doesnt not accurately represent the fight.

  • Reverend Clint

    yeaha wrestler could just hump a guy for 2.5 rounds then throw a few punches and win the fight… oh wait that already happens

  • Oontyex

    the problem is, wrestler getting our struck and busted up a little for 2.5min, followed by 12.5 of dry humping and scoring it to the wrestler, woudl rather see the other guy the get the W for the only damage done

  • Oontyex

    * if you score it round by round, there it hard to say that the dry humper didnt win the round if octagon control is scored (althouh id much prefer those rounds with no damage/ close sub attempts be 10-10)

  • glassjawsh

    “the intuition is kinda the same here, with the final outcome of this fight being shogun wailing on an almost defenceless hendo for 10min”

    see hominik, mark and the 5th round of his fight against jose aldo. he beat the shit out of the champ for an entire round (the last round) if your logic holds true, you should be claiming he won that fight.

  • Redping

    how the shit did Stephan bonnar get two 10-8 rounds for being in side control in kyle kinsbury? and Shogun didn’t get a 10-8 in the end? Shogun came back with a vengeance like he literally never does, and totally won that fight. I had hendo having 1 and 3 and shogun having 2,4,5 with 5 being a 10-8. 2 was a really close round though, but I just don’t see how round 1 can be a 10-8 when Shogun dropped Hendo in that round as well.

    Shogun definitely won the wrestling, and was definitely the aggressor for the majority of the fight. He threw comboniations and not just swung his dead-arms around. And if the fight went forever, Shogun would’ve obviously won. stockton rules give it to shogun. Also that guy who said that the fight shold’ve been stopped should give away his fightlinker account and go back to bloodyelbow where it’s ok to be a flaming homosexual with no testicles

    And guys, we’re really going to take away a guys performance entirely because the other guy was tired? it was a 5 round light heavyweight fight, and you’re telling me fatigue set into a fighter who is on natural steroids? GASP. well maybe Hendo should be a real man like Shogun and not rely on legal loopholes to be the non-hated Chael Sonnen. Hendo didn’t beat hendo in those last 2 rounds, TRT beat shogun for 3

  • Dyelon

    I have basically the same score as GLASSJAWSH….but I gave Shogun round 1 (I felt like some of the exchanges were deceptively won by Shogun and he mounted an effective stalking offense for a good 1:30-2 minutes of the end of the round….so I have Shogun winning by a point.

    At the least it should’ve been a draw but overall I’m glad Shogun lost because he’s one of my favorite fighters and he NEEDS extra motivation to work on his flaws as a fighter:

    his size/strength (he’s never going to be able to touch Jones in the shape he was in last night, he looked a little PUDGY even, cmon man hit the weights this is LHW)

    his striking defense: he’s so ready to scrap that sometimes he’ll let go of his refined striking acumen and just give into whatever he feels (like rope-a-doping henderson while he drops bombs on him, whether they hit or not isn’t as important as you’re giving the judges ammo to score your opponent points!)

    his kicks: can this ever be rectified or do you guys think he’s just fucked up forever from his surgeries? last night his offense would have been so effective if he would’ve utilized leg kicks like he did with machida, hendo has chicken legs he should’ve at least thrown something to chop them down a bit….and yeah body kicks too, I mean shogun just doesn’t throw kicks like he should…it’s really disappointing

  • iamphoenix

    ^ double no I’m not reading all those words, i’m sorry, I truly am. maybe you wrote something very informational and entertaining but I can’t make the commitment and actually read all those words you pounded on your computer. I have things to do.

  • Redping

    yeah i miss shoguns jumping kick to the body. Haven’t seen that in so long. I think with 3 knee surgeries its a bit much to hope for him to start clinch-kneeing everybody. Maybe we’ll see it in a more of a 3 round affair. I think Shogun could make middleweight if he tried – he doesn’t seem that mich bigger than Wandy who doesn’t even look that big as a middleweight. I think the avg LHW is so much bigger now than before

  • Dyelon

    …i hate that its become cool to purport a persona of laziness and insensitivity. Okay cool bro, I’m devastated you didn’t read what I wrote, I wish I had less thoughts in ma brain

  • Dyelon

    I completely agree…why is he so set on LHW? like you said even at middleweight he wouldn’t be HUGE….how can he think he will be able to stop Jones from pummeling him again in a rematch? Jones’ main attribute is his size and strength

  • Jim Harbaugh Scramble

    yeaha wrestler could just hump a guy for 2.5 rounds then throw a few punches and win the fight… oh wait that already happens

    LOL. funny.

    —-
    As for the fight, great fight and I would have preferred to see it end as a draw, but, I can live with Hendo winning.

  • Redping

    Why does penix continue to make these ‘i’m really stupid and somehow this is an insult towards you’ posts whenever anybody has a discussion/argument around here. Shoudlnt’ you realise that you just sound more stupid. I didn’t write that for you. I nfact I deliberately make my posts extra long because I don’t want you to read them, and right in the last 2 paragraphs i start saying really personal things about you but you never notice.

    also if you’re going to try to insult somebody for the time they put into a thought on a website – maybe don’t make it one where you arguably spend a lot more time and effort than them. that makes you seem pretty dumb

  • Dyelon

    Wow I completely forgot about the TRT stuff with Hendo….hm. wow. I’m a little flabbergasted actually right now.

  • iamphoenix

    …i said i was sorry… :(

  • Reverend Clint

    when are you assholes gonna realize this show is all about making fun of people… penix just does it his way.

    Hendo looked in shape while shogun looked like he started training last week with his retarded flabby brother

  • Letibleu

    I skipped the long posts cause I firmly believe whatever was said can be resumed in less words.

    I think the lesson to be learned about yesterdays bout is that Jon Jones is scary.

    How would Dan do against Jones?

    How would Dan do against Machida?

    How would Penix do against Dick (Dick the writer, im not interested in how he does with the other).

  • frickshun

    Phoenigga–>I support you. Some people around here only want to be super cereal all the fucking time. Learn to smile you cumguzzling ass pirates.

  • Symbul

    Even though none of the judges had the righteous scorecards (giving no 10-8 and going 3-2 Hendo), the Hendo decision is absolutely okay. The only other way to score it is a draw. There’s no way, no how, that Rua wins.

    The only thing up for debate is the third round, whether it’s 10-8 or 10-9 and I do think a 10-8 is perfectly warranted.

    One of the best, if not the best, cards of 2011.

  • fishead

    let’s focus on the positives here… think of what we’d have been cheated out of if this had only been a 3-round fight… take away the last two rounds and you’re left with Hendo winning a (somewhat) lopsided decision… the comeback by Rua – and the resulting drama, discussions and debate is the result of the decision to make headlining fights into five-round affairs.

  • Letibleu

    ^^^ finally someone with a great point worth actually talking about!

  • agentsmith

    Round 5 was probably a 10-8, maybe not… a good example for saying we need some clearer guidelines on what is and isn’t a 10-8 round in MMA.

    Regardless, I don’t see Dan getting a 10-8 himself in there anywhere, but I also really don’t see how so many people are giving round 4 to Shogun.  Hendo got a crucifix, briefly mount, and then a takedown within the first minute and change, then had control until the midway point.  Next minute was fairly uneventful, then Shogun landed a good uppercut with about 90 seconds left, got a takedown and mount for maybe 15 seconds until Hendo reversed him and got top control again.  Fairly close, but Shogun didn’t do anything big enough to earn the round overall.  Don’t believe the “official replay” at the end, go back and watch that shit.  Just goes to show you how people get biased for whoever’s winning towards the end of a round, plus the fact that Hendo looked gassed didn’t help either.  But anyone who says Shogun “dominated” round 4 is delusional, and Redping claiming he also won round 2 is fucking insane.

    Bottom line, it’s 48-46 Hendo, maybe 49-46 if you’re niggardly with 10-8’s.

    Also, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Shogun should consider dropping to middleweight.  When you’ve got a noticeable muffin-top, and a guy who’s fought at 185 several times looks leaner than you at 205, then you’re not a real light-heavyweight.  I’m positive Shogun could EASILY make middleweight if he wanted to.

  • DJ ThunderElbows

    I cheered my ass off for Wandy as he smashed that actor.  I was a big fan of him back in his SanShou days, his German suplexes and all that, but since I saw him in SF there’s always that dirty feeling he was just using the sport to boost up his movie cred and and it’s irked the shit out of me for no discernible reason. 

    He should be fighting the Green Ranger at the San Jose Rec center.

  • DJ ThunderElbows

    I’m positive Shogun could EASILY make middleweight if he wanted to.

    C’mon Smiff, you think a guy who trains with Ninja Fucking Rua is gonna cut down to anything easily?

  • agentsmith

    ^ I’m just disappointed that Wandy didn’t blitzkrieg and smash him inside of a minute.  He was a fool to stay at distance and let Le throw his flashy kicks for so long, but I guess he’s a little gun-shy after coming out swinging like a maniac against Leben and paying the price for it.

  • CAP

    ^Exactly Wandi had his number when he closed and went ape, it shouldn’t have taken that long. Lucky for Cung he should know some hollywood types that can get that nose fixed.

    I’ll give Hendo the nod but his gassing is his main problem. I likes me some DH but he’s only got a punchers chance against Bones.

    And how the fuck some judge gave Rick Story the win is beyond me.

  • Billytk

    I still say what this fight really proved is that the scoring/judging in MMA absolutely NEEDS to be fixed more like a Pride system where the fight is judged on a whole especially since mma judges don’t know how to use 10-10 or 10-8 and 10-7 may as well not exist.
    the other thing is that LHW is obviously no longer the division with the top talent in mma

  • Blackula Jonez

    LHW has ALWAYS had more stars than talented fighters, the most talent rich division has and may possibly always be 155.

    My arguement for the 10-8 5th round for Shogun has to do mainly with the amount of offense by Rua and how little was done by Hendo.

    If Bonnar can get multiple 10-8 rounds by completely out grappling his opponent for the entire round why can’t Shogun get a 10-8 for doing that while landing strikes and achieving mount multiple times.

  • frickshun

    ^^Yup. Hard to argue w/a black scholar. CUZ THERE’S SO FEW OF THEM. Few of them, I said.

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